Q&A with Joel
We’re participating in a class blog run by Brett Caraway and students from the Department of Radio-Television-Film at The University of Texas at Austin. His students submitted questions for our team, and we will be answering them in a series of cross posts over there.
Of course, we are eager to share the discussion with all of you. We encourage you to leave comments both here at JFB and at Copygrounds.
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Some responses from Joel Tenenbaum
1. I download hundreds of songs every month from artists very few people know about that have a lot more to lose than the popular ones you downloaded from and I’m not going to get introuble. Does that seem fair to you?
Joel: Well, no. It’s not fair. Then again, it’s not fair that out of 40,000 people who have been sued for file-sharing, I was the one who was was lucky enough to have my parents behind me, Professor Charles Nesson and his colleagues, and dedicated passionate students working for free to help me out. I might be unlucky, but I’m also damn lucky for what I’ve been given and for who I have standing with me.
2. Did you plan to fight against the RIAA to this extent, or did it just slowly escalate into what it is today?
Joel: I didn’t plan to fight at all. I wasn’t looking to become the “poster child” for all file-sharers. I tried to settle — multiple times. I offered $500 from the outset and $5250 in court, but by then, this offer was apparently not enough for the music labels. And besides, the idea that someone could just call you up and ask you for thousands of dollars, showing no hard evidence, without your getting a fair day’s representation in court seemed absurd.
3. What are you hoping to change by “fighting back” against the RIAA? Of course you understandthat peer to peer file sharing has to be controlled in some way, so if it were up to you, howwould the problem of file sharing be handled?
Joel: I’m not “hoping to change” anything. The RIAA sued me. I just want to have a fair day in court for the allegations against me. I’m not the one who can dismiss the lawsuit. Maybe the better question is: What are they hoping to change? [DBR note back to student: what do you think is a fair way to settle the issue?]
4. Has this ordeal changed the way people treat you?
Joel: Every time I appear in the Metro (the free Boston paper) all my friends and my graduate advisor get a kick out of it. Most people that recognize me are generally appreciative and tell me to stick with it. Thankfully, no one seems to be as hostile in person to me as I’ve seen on the internet.
5. Joel, I am curious as to whether your focus with your case is to argue simply that peer to peer file sharing is completely fair, or if you’re arguing that the way the RIAA is approaching these cases is unjust? One of the questions I have for Joel Tenenbaum is, “What do you feel your punishment should be for illegally downloading music and sharing files, do you believe you should face consequences at all?”
Joel: I’m not saying that file-sharing is right. I’m not saying that it’s wrong either. What I’m saying is that file-sharing is. What I’m fighting in court is that $675,000 — and even $67,500 — for 30 songs is unjust. Turns out that you can NOT use a civil law suit to “deter” other individuals: it’s an abuse of court. And so, “making an example” out of me to scare others is more than just unfair. I wouldn’t be averse to some sort of penalty in line with 99 cents per song or somewhere remotely in that neighborhood if the RIAA can actually show harm, which they haven’t.
6. If you somehow knew that this much of a fuss would be caused for downloading 7 songs, would you still do this to prove this point?
Joel: Complicated question, and a tempting one, I know. Charlie Kaufman writes, “There are a million little strings attached to every choice you make.” I’m grateful for how things have gone. Had this not happened, I wouldn’t have had the experiences I’ve had and met all the amazing people that I’ve met. But again, I’m not doing this to prove a point. I didn’t start the lawsuit. They’re the ones with a point to prove.
7. In your opinion, should lawsuits such as these even exist? In other words, do you even recognize what you did as wrong, or do you think that the RIAA is stepping outside of its boundsto prosecute?
5. Joel, I am curious as to whether your focus with your case is to argue simply that peer to peer file sharing is completely fair, or if you’re arguing that the way the RIAA is approaching these cases is unjust? One of the questions I have for Joel Tenenbaum is, “What do you feel your punishment should be for illegally downloading music and sharing files, do you believe you should face consequences at all?”
Joel: I’m not saying that file-sharing is right. I’m not saying that it’s wrong either. What I’m saying is that file-sharing is. What I’m fighting in court is that $675,000 — and even $67,500 — for 30 songs is unjust. Turns out that you can NOT use a civil law suit to “deter” other individuals: it’s an abuse of court. And so, “making an example” out of me to scare others is more than just unfair. I wouldn’t be averse to some sort of penalty in line with 99 cents per song or somewhere remotely in that neighborhood if the RIAA can actually show harm, which they haven’t.
6. If you somehow knew that this much of a fuss would be caused for downloading 7 songs, would you still do this to prove this point?
Joel: Complicated question, and a tempting one, I know. Charlie Kaufman writes, “There are a million little strings attached to every choice you make.” I’m grateful for how things have gone. Had this not happened, I wouldn’t have had the experiences I’ve had and met all the amazing people that I’ve met. But again, I’m not doing this to prove a point. I didn’t start the lawsuit. They’re the ones with a point to prove.
7. In your opinion, should lawsuits such as these even exist? In other words, do you even recognize what you did as wrong, or do you think that the RIAA is stepping outside of its boundsto prosecute?
Joel: I believe that the RIAA has the right to pursue what they believe they are entitled to under the law of the land just as I have the right to speak out against them and defend myself. That’s the way our court system works. But the way the “scales of justice” are weighed down on their side; in a way, they get to buy more “justice” by having the deep pockets necessary to pay dozens of lawyers to fabricate an interpretation out of a statute we believe wasn’t intended. They use raw power to silence anyone who dares say otherwise… that’s an abuse of taxpayer money, resources, and one of the most respected justice systems in the world.
8. By and large, have netizens had a positive outlook on the case, or a negative one?
Joel: You can get a decent sense of the proportions just looking at the comments on our blog,youtube videos, or the comments of the articles themselves. They seem to come out 5:1 in favor of us. I did a radio show and people called in: same comments, same ratio. The archetypes are:
8. By and large, have netizens had a positive outlook on the case, or a negative one?
Joel: You can get a decent sense of the proportions just looking at the comments on our blog,youtube videos, or the comments of the articles themselves. They seem to come out 5:1 in favor of us. I did a radio show and people called in: same comments, same ratio. The archetypes are:
- Screw the RIAA!!
- The reason the record companies aren’t making money and people aren’t buying is new music isn’t worth paying for. No quality.
- Screw you, Joel Tenenbaum. You’re a self-important thief trying to get out of taking responsibility.
- It’s not right, but come on, everybody does it! $67,500 is not a fair punishment.
- Hi, I’m an artist and here are the contractual details on how the RIAA screws artists in their agreements. Keep downloading!
[DBR note: In general, the feedback has been incredible. We have received hundreds of donations and thousands of notes of support from dozens of countries around the world -- from individuals who want to feel like a part of our fight.]
9. Why do you feel you have the right to these files? Do you not think you should support the artists that you think are good? Also, do you simply amass files that you rarely listen to, or do you get rid of what you don’t like/want/need?
Joel: I like music. I like to listen to it. I listen to it the way everyone around me listens to it. I’m not pioneering a new distribution system that makes sure everyone can get music for free. I’m just jumping in the pool with everyone else.
9. Why do you feel you have the right to these files? Do you not think you should support the artists that you think are good? Also, do you simply amass files that you rarely listen to, or do you get rid of what you don’t like/want/need?
Joel: I like music. I like to listen to it. I listen to it the way everyone around me listens to it. I’m not pioneering a new distribution system that makes sure everyone can get music for free. I’m just jumping in the pool with everyone else.
I also believe and have always believed that artists I derive enjoyment from deserve to be paid for their work. There’s this image of me as the “FREE MUSIC” guy who refuses to pay on principle that’s just flat-out untrue. I often have bought music as a result of the free exploration I’ve done. In that respect, I’m much like the average downloader, who actually spends more money on music than people who don’t download at all.
10. How does Joel envision the future of the music industry?
Joel: I hope it will be a vibrant place, full of sharing, creativity, and the ability for artists to connect straight to their fans without legal intervention. Other than that, I’ll have to rely on the visionary expertise of John Perry Barlow, lyricist for the Grateful Dead, who’s been around a lot longer than me, and has the benefit of greater perspective I don’t. Barlow wrote:
- I will testify that the Internet, and peer-to-peer technology in particular, allow us to do that which we, as humans, fundamentally need to do: share.
- I will explain how digital technology has finally freed us from the physical medium of CDs and other increasingly antiquated mediums, how this conversion challenges conventional application and why this natural evolution should be welcomed.
- I will testify that the music industry will never be in danger because, the reasons which I would not presume to know with certainty, we as humans absolutely require music, and because in the music business as I know it, familiarity, not scarcity, creates value.
- I will explain why this means that the industry surrounding music will never cease to exist in some form.
Isn’t file sharing kinda like sharing bottomless iced tea?
The future of the industry is when they would post music online at rake in the ad revenue, lest they a.) Chapter 11 or b.) stop file sharing. B is impossible and A is not preferable to making less money.
p or q or r
not q
not r
Therefore, p.
Did you know that MIT had less students applying because they posted their lectures under a Creative Commons license online? Wait they didn’t? Guess it goes to show that contradictorial proving is a formal term for SARCASM.
Of course file sharing doesn’t hurt sales any more than lending, burning or photocopying does. As mentioned above, it would be preferrable to artists, consumers and the industry (well maybe just the first two) if music was posted online while the content creators (and MAYBE distributors, if they would adapt) got money from Google Adsense. Heck, the RIAA could have a partnership with Google.
Hmmm…either the RIAA controls Google and effectively all search engines or Google helps the RIAA recover the money lost from suing Jammie Thomas and Joel here and ultimately helping them adapt.
Either way, we have reached a point which a certain proponent of communism called “synthesis” wherein the music industry and the distribution of music would never be the same again.
Unfortunately, no one cares. Everyone’s getting files free so why give a fuck about some graduate getting sued? Some don’t even know about it. But perhaps this is also a good sign that the RIAA can’t control people?
And Joel, if you have time, what is up with this: torrentfreak.com/artists-make-more-money-in-file-sharing-age-than-before-100914 ?
Didn’t you say that file sharing is…wait let me quote,
“Joel: I’m not saying that file-sharing is right. I’m not saying that it’s wrong either. What I’m saying is that file-sharing is.”
But if the link you gave shows file sharing is beneficial (meaning file sharing is right, well, which it is), then aren’t you contradicting yourself?
Hey the home page says that Charles Nesson is an “Internet” lawyer? What is that?
Also…
Actually Joel I’ve downloaded/streamed music, movies, TV series and books. Not a single one of those led me to buy an original copy.
Except for that one time where I bought Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban VCD. The commercials were annoying. Quality sucked. Still download and sometimes even buy pirated DVDs.
HOWEVER, just because file sharing hurts sales (if it does…superbly assuming I would’ve bought every single one of those movies I downloaded had I no other means…which is impossible since I can always tape or borrow from a friend) doesn’t mean it’s evil. It’s a wake up call for the industries to change their business model.
How do you compete with free? With free, duh! If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. Make yours free too. Just get from Google Adsense as mentioned above. They could even upload on YouTube then just place ads on the video. People will tend to watch the shows on the official channel in case others download and reupload.
Hi, I’m an artist and here are the contractual details on how the RIAA screws artists in their agreements. Keep downloading!
I hope this is not to say that if the RIAA would give their fare share to artists (which I doubt since that’s how the RIAA works - exploiting artists, it’s like that synthesis thing that Karl Marx said, thanks Cardemonde Anderson! I looked it up!), then artists would side with the RIAA?
What’s up with artists disagreeing on file sharing anyway? Some are in favor and some are not…I mean, either file sharing is detrimental or it is helpful. Or maybe as Joel said, file sharing IS. As in, it’s just some phenomenon that may or may not be helpful but you can’t stop it. Maybe it helps only those who embrace it.
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Cutting directly to the chase, Fast Five will most likely make a furious run on the box office. I am watching Fast Five Online right now here.
Who did you pay to do your blog? Its really nicely designed I bet that is why you get so much traffic!
Websites worth visiting…
[...]here are some links to sites that we link to because we think they are worth visiting[...]……
The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it’ll do even better in those areas, but for now it’s a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod’s strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.